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v8paul
Nasty noises


Hi, i'm having trouble locating a loud tappet kind of noise from my 1956 354 hemi. It has hydraulic lifters so should be quiet, and the noise comes from the passenger side.

It starts up nice and smooth and quiet, the oil pressure reads 65, and as the engine temperature gets past 100 degrees the noise comes in real loud and clear, tick tick tick, the oil pressure is dropping off to 20 and doesn't go higher when driving.

I guess i have two problems here, low oil pressure and a loud ticking noise, which has slowly been getting worse. Not a knocking noise.

Any ideas what to look for, i guess it could be a damaged oil pump ? A bad lifter would be noisey when cold, unlike my noise when its warm ?


Thanks for any thoughts

Paul


  user offline
on: Tue 14 of Apr, 2009 [14:49 UTC] reads: 50202

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DaveBlakeman
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Re: Nasty noises
on: Mon 20 of Apr, 2009 [22:15 UTC] score: 0.00
Thanks Paul,My wife cut and pasted it into the whatchcallit and I got to watch it the other night.Thats quite a nice truck you have there.Good Luck.

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v8paul
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Re: Nasty noises
on: Mon 20 of Apr, 2009 [17:37 UTC] score: 0.00
Thanks for the kind words about the truck Bobcall. Yes i am across the pond, well spotted. You're right there is no fancy oil system its just my medeval English. The truck came over from Florida last summer. I think i was born in the wrong country, dam you're lucky !!!

Ok i've stuck in my new oil, and run it round the block... no noise. I'm very pleased indeed !!!!
I'm looking forward to another trip out and get confident that its ok, hopefully things are looking good. Thanks very much for the help, you hit the nail on the head !

For Dave, the video on youtube is called '1932 Ford pickup with hemi' hope you can see it, turn the volume up full blast, nothing sounds as good as a hemi

Regards
Paul

author message
51Coupe
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Re: Re: Nasty noises
on: Tue 21 of Apr, 2009 [21:04 UTC] score: 0.00
>
> Ok i've stuck in my new oil, and run it round the block... no noise. I'm very pleased indeed !!!!
>

Hello Paul,
Glad to hear the filter and oil change helped! One more thing i can suggest is to add a bottle(the blue bottle) of STP. It contains anti wear additives includeing the zinc additive ZDDP wich is no longer in most modern oils! Should help you get thousands of extra miles out of the Hemi before a rebuild becomes necessary!
Saw your video! Awsome! Best of luck with your Hemi and Have Fun!biggrin

author message
bobcall
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Re: Nasty noises
on: Thu 16 of Apr, 2009 [22:49 UTC] score: 0.00
Paul

Checked your YouTube video. Bitchin looking ride. I like that the cab is not chopped. Noticed the square license plate, couldn't read it, appears to be a pre 73 UK plate and the plates on the other cars in the video appear to be current black on yellow UK plates. Are you in the UK?

The 30 degree filter mount will almost completely drain the oil back into the sump (another clue that you may be in the UK). We colonists call them oil pans unless it is a dry sump system. Good to hear thatbiggrin oil is going through the filter. Try a straight viscosity oil such as a 30W or 40W and see what happens to the oil pressure when the engine reaches operating temp (180 deg F).

author message
DaveBlakeman
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Re: Nasty noises
on: Thu 16 of Apr, 2009 [22:08 UTC] score: 0.00
> Hi Paul,What is the name of your youtube video.Everytime I type it my computer erases it and Id like to watch it>Thanks

>
>

author message
v8paul
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Re: Nasty noises
on: Thu 16 of Apr, 2009 [21:23 UTC] score: 0.00
Thanks Bobcall nice to know there's help out there !

I shall keep that in mind when i pull it apart.

Just wizzed the motor over on the key and whipped the filter off quick, hey presto oil. Never known that before, seems to completley drain back to the sump. It has a 30 degree adaptor for a spin on type filter that points downward.

I'm now tempted again for one last try with the thicker oil and new filter. I'll have another look over the weekend. Fingers crossed, it may live a little longer.

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bobcall
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Re: Nasty noises
on: Thu 16 of Apr, 2009 [19:02 UTC] score: 0.00
Paul

If you pull the engine for a rebuild, there are lots of guys here that will answer your questions. Buy parts from Hot Heads and they will be happy to help you.

When you start taking it down I would get plastigagues and check the main and rod bearing clearences before taking everything apart.

When you start putting it back together get new rod, main cap and head bolts. Not cheap but better than relying on 50+ year old bolts.

author message
v8paul
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Re: Nasty noises
on: Thu 16 of Apr, 2009 [14:23 UTC] score: 0.00
OK, thanks for the help, looks like its destined to come out for a rebuild then. Shame, someone spent some money on it before i had it, unfortunatly they made a lousy job of putting it togther.

Who knows what other horrors i'm going to find when i start digging further !

I do have a copy of that book, i find it a bit to vague and general for my brain. I need step by step help !



If you're interested this is me and my noisey hemi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdHPpql9Hc0

author message
bobcall
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Re: Nasty noises
on: Thu 16 of Apr, 2009 [00:14 UTC] score: 0.00
Paul

You need to get familiar with old hemis by getting a copy of “The Complete Chrysler Hemi” from Hot Heads. In addition to Chrysler it also applies to DeSoto and Dodge hemis as they are smaller versions of the same design.

No oil in the filter is not a good sign. If the spin on filter adapter is vertical the filter should be full of oil. If it is horizontal it should be partially full so when you loosen the filter some oil will flow out.

The original oil bypass valve was a spring loaded ball valve that directed the oil to the filter. When the filter became dirty the increased pressure required to force oil through the clogged filter overrode the bypass spring pressure and let the oil bypass the filter. The full flow replacement is not actually a valve. It blocks the bypass gallery and forces all of the oil through the filter.

The bypass valve is located under the rear main cap on the side apposite of the oil pump. A wire or small welding rod with a hook twisted on the end should pull the valve out of the block. If it is the original bypass valve and has never been removed it may be stuck. By removing an oil gallery plug at the top rear of the block, near the distributor boss, and running a ¼ inch rod down to the bypass valve you can tap on the rod and drive the valve out.

I still suspect loose bearing clearance for your oil pressure drop. At operating temperature the oil viscosity should not change enough to see that much of a pressure drop (45 PSI). Oil pressure is maintained by the bearings. Too loose bearing clearance and the oil pressure will be low. Low oil pressure can starve the oil flow to the lifters and rocker arms. Low oil flow to a lifter or rocker arm and you get a ticking noise.


author message
v8paul
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Re: Nasty noises
on: Wed 15 of Apr, 2009 [22:04 UTC] score: 0.00
I presume there should be oil in the filter, i guess it shouldn't all drain back in the sump ?

If i drop the sump, what am i looking for, is the valve around the pump somewhere ?

I hope its not going to be a complete strip down ?


Thanks for the help again Bobcall, unfortunately i'm not familiar with hemi's though it looks like i will be.

author message
bobcall
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Re: Nasty noises
on: Wed 15 of Apr, 2009 [20:50 UTC] score: 0.00
Well Pau, as they say, the plot thickens.

No oil in the filter. Maybe the oil "bypass" valve was not removed from the block and it is stuck in the bypass position. Or maybe it was replaced by a full flow valve but the valve was install upside down.

Sorry to hear of your problem, but, I think its time to drop the pan and doo some more detective work.

author message
v8paul
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Re: Nasty noises
on: Wed 15 of Apr, 2009 [19:45 UTC] score: 0.00
OK here's an update, just got some oil, just got the oil filter off... no oil in side the filter !!!!!!

I've never seen that before. It looks like it has a hotheads oil filter conversion with a spin on filter. Has it been put on wrong or jammed up somewhere ?

I've driven about a thousand miles on it, i thought it had been put together well until i got it home, found nothing but problems and now this one.

Is it doomed, or can i save it ?????

Thanks for the help... i need it


Paul




author message
LarrySrader
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Re: Nasty noises
on: Wed 15 of Apr, 2009 [17:02 UTC] score: 0.00
They guys are right, Fram is one of the worst filters out there. The NAPA Gold filters and Car Quest's 'blue line' filters are all made by Wix.

author message
LarrySrader
user offline
Re: Nasty noises
on: Wed 15 of Apr, 2009 [17:00 UTC] score: 0.00
> Hi, i'm having trouble locating a loud tappet kind of noise from my 1956 354 hemi. It has hydraulic lifters so should be quiet, and the noise comes from the passenger side.
>
> It starts up nice and smooth and quiet, the oil pressure reads 65, and as the engine temperature gets past 100 degrees the noise comes in real loud and clear, tick tick tick, the oil pressure is dropping off to 20 and doesn't go higher when driving.
>
> I guess i have two problems here, low oil pressure and a loud ticking noise, which has slowly been getting worse. Not a knocking noise.
>
> Any ideas what to look for, i guess it could be a damaged oil pump ? A bad lifter would be noisey when cold, unlike my noise when its warm ?
>
>
> Thanks for any thoughts
>
> Paul
>
>

author message
bobcall
user offline
Re: Nasty noises
on: Tue 14 of Apr, 2009 [22:47 UTC] score: 0.00
Paul

51 Coupe is right about Fram filters. Their quailty is poor not like back in the when they were the market leader. Lots of guys report problems related to Fram filters. They seem to have best results with Wix filters who also makes filters for NAPA.

Try a new filter and straight 30W oil first.

author message
v8paul
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Re: Nasty noises
on: Tue 14 of Apr, 2009 [22:36 UTC] score: 0.00
Thanks guys, i didn't want to hear that, but it sounds spot on Bobcall, makes a lot of sense now you've said it.

I've had plenty of trouble with it and was hoping to use it this summer. I think i'll try a heavier oil and filter as you suggest 51Coupe sounds like a good plan !

I shall let you know how it runs when i find some heavier oil and get another filter, at least it'll confirm it needs a rebuild.

Thanks for the help.

Paul

author message
bobcall
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Re: Nasty noises
on: Tue 14 of Apr, 2009 [15:21 UTC] score: 0.00
Paul

I'm no expert, but I would guess the oil pump is not your probem if it has 65 lbs at start up. Sounds like the pressure loss would be because of excessive bearing clearence so that as operating temp is reached and the oil thins the bearings cannot maintain pressure. This leads to reduced oil flow up to the lifters and rocker arms thus your ticking noise.

Stand by for replies from other guys that have more experience than I have.

author message
51Coupe
user offline
Re: Re: Nasty noises
on: Tue 14 of Apr, 2009 [17:48 UTC] score: 0.00
I tend to agree with Bobcall, however, if your useing a Fram oil filter, you might want to try another type and maybe slightly higher oil weight. Depending what weight your currently useing!


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